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Executive Summary
A leaked transcript of an October 14, 2025 phone conversation between Steve Witkoff, President Trump’s Middle East envoy, and Yuri Ushakov, a senior foreign policy advisor to Russian President Vladimir Putin, reveals extraordinary behind-the-scenes coordination on Ukraine peace negotiations. The call shows Witkoff advising Ushakov on how Putin should approach a phone call with Trump, proposing a “20-point peace plan” similar to Gaza negotiations, and explicitly stating his belief that Russia “has always wanted a peace deal.” Most significantly, Witkoff suggests Russia may receive Donetsk and “maybe a land swap somewhere” as part of any settlement, while coordinating the timing of Putin’s call to occur before Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s White House visit.
Participants
Steve Witkoff – Special Envoy to the Middle East, Trump Administration; Real estate developer and longtime Trump associate
Yuri Ushakov – Senior Foreign Policy Advisor to Russian President Vladimir Putin; Former Russian Ambassador to the United States (1998-2008)
Detailed Breakdown
Opening Pleasantries and Russian Gratitude
The conversation began with Ushakov congratulating Witkoff on an unspecified achievement, with Ushakov stating multiple times “You made a great job. Just a great job. Thank you so much.”
Witkoff responded by thanking Ushakov “and thanks for your support. I know your country supported it and I thank you.”
This exchange suggests Russian involvement in or approval of some recent Trump administration diplomatic success, though the specific achievement is not identified in the transcript.
Russia Suspends Middle East Summit
Ushakov revealed that Russia had suspended organizing “the first Russian-Arabic summit,” explaining the reason in revealing terms: “because we think that you are making the real job there in the region.”
This indicates Russia deferred its own Middle East diplomatic initiatives to avoid interfering with Witkoff’s work as Trump’s Middle East envoy, suggesting a level of coordination between the Trump administration and Russia on regional diplomacy that extends beyond Ukraine.
Transition to Ukraine Discussion
Witkoff pivoted the conversation to Ukraine, stating: “I think if we can get the Russia-Ukraine thing solved, everybody’ll be jumping for joy.”
Ushakov responded with laughter: “Yeah, you need to solve only one problem” – referring to the Russian-Ukrainian war.
When Witkoff asked “How do we get that solved?” Ushakov made his primary request.
Coordinating the Putin-Trump Phone Call
Ushakov asked for Witkoff’s advice: “Do you think that it will be useful if our bosses will talk on the phone?”
Witkoff immediately agreed: “Yes, I do.”
When Ushakov asked about timing, Witkoff stated: “I think as soon as you suggest, my guy is ready to do it.”
This exchange demonstrates that Witkoff, not Secretary of State or National Security Council officials, was serving as the primary back-channel coordinator for direct Trump-Putin communications.
Witkoff’s Coaching on What Putin Should Say
Witkoff then provided explicit coaching to the Russian advisor on how Putin should approach the call with Trump:
“I would make the call and just reiterate that you congratulate the president on this achievement, that you supported it, that you respect that he is a man of peace and you’re just, you’re really glad to have seen it happen.”
Witkoff emphasized: “I think from that it’s going to be a really good call.”
This represents an American official advising a foreign adversary’s representative on diplomatic talking points for engaging the U.S. President – a highly unusual arrangement that bypasses traditional diplomatic channels.
Witkoff’s Representation of Russia’s Position to Trump
Witkoff revealed what he had told President Trump about Russia’s intentions:
“I told the president that you — that the Russian Federation has always wanted a peace deal. That’s my belief. I told the president I believe that.”
He continued: “And I believe the question is — the issue is is that we have two nations that are having a hard time coming to a compromise and when we do, we’re going to have a peace deal.”
This framing presents the conflict as a mutual failure to compromise rather than Russian aggression, and suggests Witkoff has been advocating for Russia’s perspective in discussions with Trump.
The Proposed “20-Point Peace Plan”
Witkoff proposed creating a comprehensive peace framework modeled on Middle East negotiations:
“I’m even thinking that maybe we set out like a 20-point peace proposal, just like we did in Gaza. We put a 20-point Trump plan together that was 20 points for peace and I’m thinking maybe we do the same thing with you.”
Ushakov responded: “I think that very point our leaders could discuss.”
This proposal suggests Witkoff was developing substantive policy proposals for Ukraine without apparent coordination with State Department officials or Ukraine policy experts.
Witkoff Reveals His Terms for Peace Deal
In perhaps the most significant portion of the call, Witkoff explicitly stated what he believes a peace deal would require:
“Now, me to you, I know what it’s going to take to get a peace deal done: Donetsk and maybe a land swap somewhere.”
Context for general readers: Donetsk is one of four Ukrainian regions (along with Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson) that Russia illegally annexed in September 2022, though it does not fully control any of these territories. International law and U.S. policy have consistently held these annexations as illegal. Witkoff’s statement suggests he believes Ukraine should cede Donetsk Oblast to Russia, representing a dramatic shift from longstanding U.S. policy supporting Ukraine’s territorial integrity.
The reference to “a land swap somewhere” is ambiguous but could suggest trading other Ukrainian territory to Russia or potentially offering Russia compensation elsewhere.
Strategic Messaging Coordination
Witkoff immediately qualified his territorial concession statement with guidance on public messaging:
“But I’m saying instead of talking like that, let’s talk more hopefully because I think we’re going to get to a deal here.”
He added that “the president will give me a lot of space and discretion to get to the deal,” indicating Trump had granted Witkoff significant authority to negotiate on Ukraine despite his official portfolio being Middle East affairs.
Witkoff emphasized the importance of his ongoing coordination with Ushakov: “so if we can create that opportunity that after this I talked to Yuri and we had a conversation I think that could lead to big stuff.”
Timing Around Zelenskyy’s White House Visit
Witkoff revealed strategic timing considerations:
“Zelenskiy is coming to the White House on Friday.”
Ushakov indicated he was already aware, responding with a chuckle: “I know that.”
Witkoff then specified his preference for when the Putin-Trump call should occur:
“I will go to that meeting because they want me there, but I think if possible we have the call with your boss before that Friday meeting.”
Ushakov confirmed: “Before, before — yeah?”
Witkoff confirmed: “Correct.”
Context: This timing suggests Witkoff wanted Putin to speak with Trump before the Ukrainian president’s visit, potentially to frame Trump’s thinking or establish Russian positions before Ukraine could present its perspective. Having the Middle East envoy coordinate such timing around a crucial Ukraine meeting raises questions about whether State Department officials or the National Security Council were aware of this back-channel coordination.
Call Conclusion
Ushakov agreed to the plan: “I got your advice. So I discuss that with my boss and then I come back to you, ok?”
Witkoff agreed: “Ok Yuri, I’ll speak to you soon.”
The call concluded with friendly farewells, with Ushakov saying “Thank you so much” before hanging up.
Analysis and Context
Unprecedented Back-Channel Diplomacy
This transcript reveals Steve Witkoff, whose official role is Middle East envoy, operating as the primary back-channel to the Kremlin on Ukraine policy. This arrangement bypasses:
- The Secretary of State
- The National Security Advisor
- The State Department’s Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs
- Ukraine policy specialists
- Traditional diplomatic protocols
Coaching an Adversary
Witkoff’s detailed advice to Ushakov on how Putin should approach Trump represents a reversal of normal diplomatic practice, where American officials work to advance U.S. interests in conversations with foreign leaders, not coach foreign powers on how to influence the American president.
Territorial Concessions
Witkoff’s statement that peace requires “Donetsk and maybe a land swap somewhere” represents a position significantly at odds with:
- Official U.S. policy supporting Ukraine’s territorial integrity
- Ukraine’s stated negotiating position
- International law regarding illegal annexation
- Bipartisan Congressional support for Ukraine
Russian Strategic Advantage
The conversation reveals several ways Russia gains strategic advantage from this arrangement:
- Intelligence on U.S. positions: Witkoff reveals what he’s told Trump about Russia’s intentions
- Advance knowledge: Ushakov already knows about Zelenskyy’s White House visit timing
- Coordination opportunities: The call happens before Ukraine can present its case to Trump
- Legitimization: An American official validates Russia’s claim to want peace
- Territorial gains: An American official suggests Russia should receive Ukrainian territory
Questions Raised
The leaked transcript raises numerous questions:
- Was President Trump aware of this specific conversation?
- Did Secretary of State or National Security Advisor approve Witkoff’s back-channel role?
- Has Witkoff had other similar conversations with Russian officials?
- What is the legal status of these communications under the Logan Act?
- How did Ukraine react to learning of this coordination?
- What were the “achievements” Russia supported that prompted their gratitude?
Source
“Remarks: Steve Witkoff Speaks with Russian Policy Advisor in Leaked Transcript – November 25, 2025.” Factbase, Roll Call, 25 Nov. 2025, factba.se. Transcript courtesy of and copyright Bloomberg.
Note: This transcript was first published exclusively by Bloomberg and subsequently made available through Roll Call’s Factba.se transcription service. The authenticity of the transcript has not been independently verified by this publication, though Bloomberg is a major news organization with established editorial standards.